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August 2008. Interview with Ernest Dempsey. The Audience Review. 8th edition. Printed here with permission www.worldaudience.org

The Physical World: Reality or Illusion? An Interview
with Dr. Robin Kelly, author of The Human Antenna
by Ernest Dempsey

Mainstream science has long been skeptical, and recklessly
so, of what have come to be called ‘paranormal
phenomena’. The latter have repeatedly been criticized and
discarded as unscientific and fiction, rather than fact. Lack
of objectivity and a plausible, rational explanation have
hindered the acceptance of the paranormal as believable
experiences of mentally sane individuals. But now, we have
a groundbreaking, new approach from Dr. Robin Kelly, a
medical doctor and alternative healing expert, explaining
the unusual phenomena with a fairly plausible hypothesis
(if it can be called so at this point). In his latest book The
Human Antenna (Elite Books, 2007), Dr. Kelly shares
some of the most amazing research studies on the
specialized properties of microtubules and DNA and their
interaction with cosmic energy. Stories of near-death and
out-of-body experiences, xenoglossy, x-ray vision,
telephonic telepathy, and other mind-blowing phenomena
make Dr. Kelly’s book a page turner. After reading it,
you’ll seriously think, for the first time perhaps, of human
beings as more than material bodies and human
consciousness as not confined to brain function. I could
hardly wait to chat with Dr. Kelly about his research and
views on physical existence and cosmic energy, and their
implications for healing illnesses. As expected, our
conversation was exciting and Dr. Kelly’s insight simply
fascinating.

Ernest: Dr. Kelly, please tell our readers briefly about your
academic background, professional experience, and major
publications.

Dr. Kelly: I am a formally-trained medical doctor,
graduating from Middlesex Hospital, London University, in
1974. I spent six years in hospital medicine – three of these
in London and three years in Auckland, New Zealand.
During this time I worked in cancer wards, both with adults
and children, as well as doing the usual internships, and
emergency departments etc. I moved into family practice in
Auckland, in 1981, as a proactive step, realizing my
vocation was to treat ‘people rather than diseases.’ I sat the
advanced qualifications for general practice, and
progressed to become a Fellow of the Royal New Zealand
College of General Practitioners. Along the way, I became
president and education convener of the NZ Medical
Acupuncture Society, and a founding trustee of the NZ
MindBody trust. My first book Healing Ways: A Doctor’s Guide to Healing
(Penguin Books, 2000) was released in New Zealand and in
the UK. It explained the ways through which Eastern and
Western philosophies of health could best be integrated. I
focused on the meridian theory and the ‘zang fu’ – how our
organ systems are interlinked, and display mind body and
spiritual characteristics. The other main focus was how best
to introduce the person’s uniqueness into their deep
healing. One chapter focused on modern theories of
healing, with particular reference to quantum theory, nonlocality,
and entanglement. The Human Antenna extended,
and updated, these concepts in 2007; this time with a focus
on the Ayurvedic chakra system, and the growth of human
consciousness. My aim in both books was to present a
thoroughly grounded, straightforward, and practical view of
these concepts, relating to my own experiences with people
at times of challenge, and crisis in their lives.

Ernest: The Human Antenna seems to be deeply inspired
by your research on the interaction of cosmic energy with
living tissues. Now what exactly is energy psychology and
why do you place your work in the realm of ‘psychology’?

Dr. Kelly: It became apparent to me as soon as I started to
use acupuncture in my practice that our bodies are ‘open’
rather than ‘closed’ systems. My training prior to this time
had focused on a theory that our bodies were largely
‘closed off’ from the world around us, and that the best way
to help as a doctor was by introducing a chemical
compound into the body, or by performing surgery. So
firstly I was introduced to the Chinese concepts that
primarily we were ‘energetic’ beings, with a free flow of
natural energy in and out of the body.
Acupuncture was one way to enhance this natural flow. The realization that we are also connected, and in fact contributors, to fields of
information – non local ‘cosmic’ energy, came to me
gradually. I began to notice synchronicities in my life, and
in the lives of those seeking my help. At times there were
major intuitive leaps occurring during an ‘energy balancing
treatment.’ I was also acting as a medical director of a
hospice at this time, and I became aware that those dying
were particularly prone to these experiences. In essence, the
veil between worlds seemed to be lifted at this time. I was
also influenced by the work and writing of Rupert
Sheldrake and Fritjof Capra, with their explanations of the
non material sciences.
However the cosmic connections really hit home with me
when I read about the holographic, fractal nature of our
universe. I had been using ear acupuncture, and reading the
Chinese pulses, for several years prior to this. Here was a
scientific theory that supported the idea that all the
information of the body could be ‘held’ in one small part.
So, for me, the scientific evidence came as a confirmation
of my clinical experiences. Similarly, the scientific
evidence that on the quantum level atoms could be
‘entangled’ came as a confirmation that on a human
‘macro’ levels, our minds, and hearts, could also be
connected outside time and space.
Over recent years, I have been attracted to the Energy
Psychology movement, as it gives people tools to use this
science themselves. At the root of these techniques lies a
compassionate intent towards one’s self. Compassion is at
the heart of non-local connections between individuals,
whether it is telephone telepathy, near death or pre- death
visions, or remote viewing. For energy psychology
techniques to work, compassion needs to be openly
expressed to one’s own self. They represent a practical way
for people to demonstrate a true unconditional personal
ownership of their healing.

Ernest: Do you see humans, and other life forms, as
essentially ‘energy beings’ rather than ‘material beings’?

Dr. Kelly: I regard both as real –with our physical world
being detectable by our senses. However, this physical
dimension is only one representation of a deeper truth. The
fact that all living beings are able to convert the quantum
reality (and yet to be understood dimensions) into our
time/space reality is the true miracle. We are becoming
aware that beyond the grasp of our five senses there exists a
universe existing as a field of universal information. It is
speculated that our physical form is the end result of
interference patterns of information – in nanotechnology
we know that where two coherent beams of light cross,
‘entanglement’ can occur. Similarly the CERN Large
Hadron Collider experiments this year will attempt to
create the Higgs’ boson, commonly referred to as the God
particle, out of subatomic particles (protons), colliding at
great speed. In other words, we have reached a point in
science where we are trying to create mass out of pure
energy. In the Human Antenna, I speculate that this is
exactly what is happening within each of us every second
of our lives.
So there is a growing scientific confirmation of the
Buddhist understanding that our physical world is an
‘illusion.’ There are also several papers in the scientific
literature appearing speculating that we live in a ‘virtual
reality’ universe.
However, it seems those who have this deeper
understanding, also view the physical world as the true
miracle. Knowing all this only makes us want to protect our
earth and its inhabitants even more. It gives us a glimpse of
the sacredness at the core of our being.

Ernest: So what exactly is scalar energy and what is its
role in human life?

Dr. Kelly: Scalar energy, zero point energy, wormholes,
even star gates, are all our limited way of trying to explain
our connection to realms that exist ‘outside’ our concepts
of space and time. It seems that when we reach the very
limits of our earthly dimensions – i.e. as we approach the
speed of light, or a temperature of absolute zero – the hard
rules of known physics seem to be ‘bent.’ Similarly at
times of intense emotional connection i.e. love and loss,
and as part of the dying process, we as humans can glimpse
at other dimensions.
In The Human Antenna, I draw attention to the mobius coil
– a manifestation of the infinity symbol. If an electrical
current is passed through wires assembled in this form, all
the positive and negative currents balance each other out.
Effectively we now have a vacuum produced outside the
confines of electricity or electromagnetic fields – with all
forces of ‘yin’ and ‘yang’ balanced. The analogy here is
that of ‘the eye’ within the vortex of a storm. The double
helix of the DNA and the helical structures we find within
our connective tissue can be regarded as many of these
mobius coils, infinity signs, all joined together. I speculate
that when we, as humans, are in optimum physical and
electrical balance, we are in the best condition to
‘download’ these realms. This has huge significance for our
understanding of both physical healing and the creative
process.
Of course the symbol of the Caduceus, the twin serpents
entwined around the rod of Hermes, is the holographic
representation of all this on the human scale.

Ernest: How can the interaction between DNA and scalar
energy be used in healing patients of some, or any, kinds of
diseases?

Dr. Kelly: There is speculation that our DNA downloads
‘the field’, and then acts as a four- dimensional projector of
‘biophotonic’ laser light beams of energy. This immensely
complex laser light show forms the holographic matrix or
map upon which physical structure forms. Somehow, this
interacts with the microtubules within our connective tissue
web, which researchers, such as Stuart Hameroff and Roger
Penrose, also hypothesize are converters of these quantum
realms.
This of course sounds like science fiction, but there are
reports of this theory being supported by ground breaking
experiments in Russia. One Moscow based biophysicist
Peter Gariaev, has recorded the information from the DNA
of the pancreases of healthy rats, and has ‘projected it’ into
the bodies of diabetic rats whose pancreases have been
poisoned. Healthy pancreases have formed in the diabetic
rats on this new matrix, reversing their diabetes and need
for insulin. Of course, this sort of experiment needs to be
replicated several times to gain scientific credibility. But
there are precious few researchers in the West with a
suitable grounding in biophysics. Also, most research
projects are funded by the biochemical industry.
Although all this sounds very exciting, my own interest lies
more on how this new understanding of our bodies can be
used, everyday, for healing by the person in the street. For
instance: Can we use simple and cheap light and sound
devices to heal? How do positive and negative emotions,
and intent, affect this energetic matrix? Can negative
energy in childhood cause the body to malfunction at this
vital fundamental level, leading to diseases later in life? If
so, how can we influence this process in a positive way?
Can we help in our communities by reducing the
background level of fear and tension?
This grass-roots approach takes the responsibility away
from the research centers, and places it, and the power,
back into our own hands. It is also important that to teach
this to our children at school.

Ernest: The Human Antenna discusses dreams, out of body
experiences, and near death experiences (NDEs) as
scientifically explainable, right?

Dr. Kelly: In the confusing world of consciousness studies,
there can be said to be two ‘camps.’ The first believes that
our consciousness is simply a by-product of our brains – an
epiphenomenon. The second is that we act as filters of
consciousness – which is the information of our universe
and primary, or fundamental, to everything else. Of course,
The Human Antenna model embraces the latter. Those who
favor the first explanation will point at an area of the brain
that shows up on a scan when someone is having an out of
body experience or an NDE and say: ‘Look that proves it;
its all a misperception; it’s all in the head!’ Those of us in
the second camp, say: ‘No, those are only the recording
lights to show us we are downloading something real!’
(Maybe, we will say, the people we meet in NDEs are as
real as the Larry King we see on our TV screen every
night!)
Up until now, the scientific community has rather
dogmatically favored the first explanation - that
consciousness is an epiphenomenon. However, it appears,
without any valid scientific proof. My work challenges this
view.
I happen to feel though there may be a middle ground. Our
perceptions certainly influence our world and universe.
This is clear from Einstein’s Special Theory of Relativity
onwards, up until and including the modern theories of
observer physics. For instance what we see through our
eyes is likely a combined effect of light reaching our eyes,
and the perceptions already formed within our brains. So
our conditioning is a major player in our reality. As we
grow consciously and spiritually, we tend to move away
from dogma and see things, literally, in a new light. No
amount of intellectual persuading will convince a hardened
skeptic that the foundations of life are based on energy,
love and consciousness. Our intellects are too bound to our
ego.

Ernest: So the upshot of these so-called ‘paranormal’
phenomena is that our consciousness is not confined to our
material being and can live beyond the body. What is your
view on the origin of consciousness? Can it originate
without a physical body?

Dr. Kelly: Yes, when we die, for instance, the recording
apparatus dies, but the consciousness show goes on. I don’t
think any of us, certainly not myself, has any idea about the
true origin of consciousness. In the fractal universe though,
the more we look the more we find. Physicists David
Deutsch and Michio Kaku are now convinced that there are
multiple universes, and that the connections between these
lie both in the macrocosm and the microcosm. In The
Human Antenna appendix, I explore John Wheeler’s theory
of ‘quantum foam’ of space containing an infinite number
of wormholes to other universes. I speculate that this is the
space upon, and from, which we are continuously
manifesting. So clearly our Newtonian concept of time and
space, even our talk of a ‘past, present and future,’ or ‘big
or small,’ doesn’t make much sense when talking about
these other dimensions. All these physicists agree that each
universe will have its own scientific rules.
However, rather than getting lost in all this speculation, I
think it is wonderful that we have reached the point we can
talk this way. In many ways, our perception of the universe
is growing alongside our conscious growth. So maybe, just
maybe, the two are closely linked. We are the co-creators
of all this!
Can consciousness exist without our bodies? Probably yes,
but it is with and through our bodies that we are beginning
to make sense of it all.

Ernest: You place a high value on ancient Chinese and
Hindu traditions of healing that are both based on energy/human
interaction. How do you compare these systems
with modern allopathic approach to healing?

Dr. Kelly: My work and writing are attempts to bring these
apparently differing views of health and healing together.
The allopathic approach to medicine has largely developed
as a result of our rushed Western life style. Recently, I tried
to convince a woman living in New Zealand, but born in
China, to have acupuncture rather than a cortisone injection
for her inflamed tendon. She said she would have the
steroid, as she needed it numbed down quickly as ‘time
meant money.’ So our ‘symptom-quelling’ approach has its
basis as much with the way most people run their lives as
with the mass conditioning of the public by the
pharmaceutical industry. We all need symptom control to
deal with our lives – it is perfectly ok to take an aspirin for
a headache, as long as we take into account its cause.
Similarly, for those in severe pain, or who are terminally
ill, the compassionate symptom controlling approach is
essential.
However, the holistic approach of Chinese and Ayurvedic
medicine acknowledges there are underlying deeper
processes at play. In these traditional cultures, many
Western diseases are seen simply as symptoms of a more
fundamental energetic imbalance. So by addressing the
purely ‘physical’ or ‘chemical’ in our Western approach,
one can be accused of neglecting the root energetic causes
of ill health. Certainly the emerging science of biophysics
supports this view. However, we still need to adapt these
systems of energy medicine into a more effective model in
the West. One big hurdle is how in the West we have
defined ‘the placebo.’ In many ways, the intent of the
healer, and of faith and beliefs of the person to be healed, is
paramount to the Ayurvedic and Chinese system of health.
So we need to embrace and understand the role of all these
concepts, and not alienate or belittle them as we have
tended to do. Just because the concept of ‘placebo’ is a
useful yardstick by which we measure the performance of a
pharmaceutical, doesn’t make it an appropriate measure for
those interactive healing arts which embrace compassion,
interaction and faith. In these models, all these elements are
seen as vital to achieving satisfactory outcomes.

Ernest: In healing through cosmic energy, the
psychological states, of the healer and that of the patient,
are important. How does this help in healing?

Dr. Kelly: The healer and the patient together are conduits
for this cosmic energy. They therefore should be in a
harmonious state both within themselves and together. This
is the state of coherence which is so important to healing.
The healer should teach the patient how she or he can do
this her/himself. The HeartMath Institute has been one of
the leading researchers in this field, and we now have-hand
held biofeedback devices that measure the desired state of
coherence in the heart. The heart is the strongest electrical
organ in the body, and hence when in balance the most
potent ‘transceiver’ of this cosmic, scalar energy.
The techniques used to achieve this coherence combine
gentle abdominal breathing with heart awareness exercises.
Developing a sense of well being, joy and compassion in
the region of the heart, while gently breathing in, forms the
basis of profound energy psychology techniques. In joint
sessions, it is important for both healer and healee to
achieve this level of heart balance, preferably together in
harmony.

Ernest: There was a stage in your professional career when
you decided against practicing hypnotism. Would you like
to tell why?

Dr. Kelly: My goal all along is to help people take true
ownership of their healing. When I learnt hypnotherapy, I
was concerned I may put myself in an ‘overly controlling’
role. At that time in the 80s, I was also learning to meditate, and
practice Qi Gong, and so I felt even teaching ‘selfhypnosis’
didn’t quite fit for where I was at. However, I acknowledge
many find these techniques very useful, and I encourage
them where appropriate. It is very important that
people use their due diligence, and their intuition, when
seeking out a hypnotherapist, especially for past life work. I
see the overriding role of regression work as a healing aid
for this life.

Ernest: Okay, do you mind my asking whether you believe
in God? If so, what is your concept of God?

Dr. Kelly: My own concept of God is an all pervading,
benign, loving connection between all beings. My God is
more of an entity than an identity. It is pure, unconditional
love. It is important I feel, for Energy Psychology
techniques to be most effective, for us to recognize that this
God also resides within; that we are all divine beings.
However, in all healing encounters, we should meet people
where they wish to be met. It is not my role to impose my
understandings of God onto anyone seeking my help. It is
their own God that we call on. I invite all patients to talk
about love and, if they want, about God. It is, on reflection,
rather strange that formal medicine has tended to ignore
something so important and basic to the healing process.

Ernest: Finally, you make mention of feminine values in
religions that are important in effective healing with
universal energy. What are those values and how they work
in healing?

Dr. Kelly: I think one of the most pivotal omissions in both
religious and medical teaching for centuries is an open
recognition of the sacredness of women. Western religious
teaching has tended to distance women from their
spirituality – witness how women have for centuries felt
more comfortable giving than receiving. This has had a
huge impact on women’s health – in particular, their
immune systems. The auto immune conditions of rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis and lupus all affect
women in greater numbers than men. Guilt, poor self –
esteem, and poor financial rewards, have all taken their toll.
These issues are also prominent in women with breast
cancer – a heart-chakra condition involving the organ that
nurtures others. The role of emotions in health has been
well know to women, but has until recently ignored by our
health systems. The Energy Psychology techniques, which
are really an open expression of self love, are a godsend for
women who inherently seem to understand these issues
more than men.
However, I am confident that we are witness to a time of
great change, and growth in our consciousness. This
awareness is being fed to me everyday through the people –
women, men and children -seeking my help. They continue
to be my most profound and patient teachers.

Ernest: Thank you very much Dr. Kelly for your time and
sharing your wisdom!


Past Journals.

Sunday August 5 2007. Auckland NZ

My very first blog!

I have tried to start this several times. Each time abandoning it, as I questioned the whole role of a personal Blog page on this website, and within my life.

My first attempt evolved rapidly into an exercise of creative writing - on the art of writing itself. How sentences gave birth to new baby sentences, and so on. And how they all lived together on the page as a multi generational family, happily ever after. Luckily for all, I inadvertently succeeded in wiping all this drivel from my computer. It was never meant to be. 

So I decided - Robin, no more crass self indulgence.

Next up, I began to rattle off exactly what was on my mind. It had been a hard day, and the headlines were full of disaster stories from our state funded hospitals. Missed diagnoses leading to death, elderly patients stacked up in drafty corridors
in emergency departments, and tired despondent doctors threatening strike action. No wonder, I moaned - we have a health system here, and in most so called 1st world countries, that hasn't addressed the root causes of health. A system locked into an outdated mechanistic paradigm that assumes good health can only be imposed on one by another. Pouring money, I explained, into a system based on such a misguided notion only compounds the massive problem of co -dependency.  I droned on and on about a health structure dependent on managing sicknesses that, in the existing paradigm, had no intrinsic meaning.

I then realised was doing exactly what every MindBody healing group I have tried to facilitate does naturally, with great regularity - whinge about the system, the doctors, the management, the government etc. Important -ok - cathartic -to be sure- but definitely not what this blog should be about. So out it all went, thank heavens, down the blog bog (so to speak.)

After a few days of begging my muse to, please, deliver the goods, I fell upon this quote  from R. Buckminster Fuller :

"You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete."

I found it on the personal website of my US editor in chief, author Dawson Church. Of course, I already knew this - we all do - but it is exactly where the energies of this blog should be aimed. And my website, writing, consultations, music and everything for that matter.

So my blogs, I decided, should be uplifting, light and breezy blogs, not  heavy, earnest, blogged-down blogs. 

Two weeks ago, the family attended an exhibition on ancient Egypt - specifically the Egyptian Book of the Dead - at our wonderful Auckland Museum. We saw a replica of a piece of ancient art depicting the weighing of a deceased person's heart, as part of their passage into the underworld or afterlife. The picture showed a heart and feather in perfect balance on a set of scales.The successful applicant would be allowed admission to the afterlife, only if their heart weighed ' as light as a feather.'

So, in keeping with this image, the words of my blogs should reflect exactly what it is that 'tickles my fancy' at the time. It should of course be authentic, relevant, light-hearted and occasionally brilliant.

And it should  provoke your comments, and direction. I'd love that.

So just what is my fancy being tickled by in mid to late 2007?

There is a list - and each deserves, and will receive, its very own blog.

1. The coming of age of Energy Psychology.  Simple, effective, hands-on Chinese medicine for the people, by the people.

2. The new crop circles. The genuine, the frauds and the meaning.

3. The Tipping Point of good intention. Making changes to our planet through our  very being.

4. The speeding up of time.

5. My own stuff - taking one of my babies 'The Human Aerial/Antenna' to a wider international audience.
                           - our planned workshops with Diane Winder on 'Intuition and our Global Future.' News soon of dates on this website!
                           - the exciting invitation to perform my mix of biology, science and song at the Woodford Folk Festival, Queensland late December 2007.
                           - nurturing the long gestation of another baby - the musical Chakramor - under the guiding wisdom of my good friend Michael Fleck.
                           - and news of my real life babies Sophie, Lucy, and Toby. Our fluffy four legged baby Lily. And of course, my big babe, Trish.

That's quite enough for now. Watch this space. Till next time.

Keep well and in the present - for ever now

Robin